Talk:Government involvement in the Terri Schiavo case

04/18/2005

This is a good start. It seems slightly verbose, but we can all address that later. I'd like to seem some mention of Pres. Bush's snap trip back to Washington to sign the Palm Sunday Compromise. This was later characterized as very partisian by many folks when compared to the administration's handling of the Red Lake High School massacre. It may give the reader a better understanding of the political atmosphere that surrounded the issues.--ghost 16:22, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Change of Ms. Schiavo to Schiavo

I disagree with these changes in the strongest possible terms. I will wait a short period to change the article to allow others the oppurtunity to revert it on their own. See my explanations on User talk:Professor Ninja. See also the Ms/Mrs. entries on Talk:Terri Schiavo. --ghost 05:57, 19 Apr 20e05 (UTC)

I'd like to bring this article into line with FuelWagon's recent edit of the Terri Schiavo page. Comments, questions?--ghost 20:16, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Done. Switched to informal. Switched some of the "Mrs. Schiavo's parents" references to "the Schindlers".--ghost 04:07, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Enough

Enough, Gordon. The next step if you don't will be a direct request for a community ban on you for exhausting the community's patience. Permanent blocking. No more arguments, no more rationalizations, no more long-winded, disruptive, self-serving rebuttals -- one more argument or attempt to edge in justifications and it's straight to the Community noticeboard. So stop. --Calton | Talk 14:49, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

To put it in context, please note that there were 1,130 references to my involvement and ZERO to some other Watts. Now, since the references had to have my FULL name -and not just the words Gordon and Watts somewhere in the page, you can see they referred to ME.

Yeah, Calton; You're right and about 1,130 other people who cite my involvement are wrong. You’re also paranoid, as we'll later see...--GordonWatts 13:11, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that's necessary. The whole thing seems to be winding down. Gordon's free to rebut, but I get the impression that most are done discussing, and that it won't be an issue unless the links are reinserted. I don't think an ultimatum is required, and it would be extreme anyway. Gordon doesn't really seem to take much interest in articles outside of the Schiavo case, so perhaps a break from editing Schiavo articles would be satisfactory. Leebo⁸⁶ 15:14, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Right or wrong on the issue of the links, Leebo is right in all his statements here, which means that you are wrong, and hence a tad paranoid; Chill out, Calton: It's only a wiki! Go do something else for a few days; The world won't come to an end, ya know...?--GordonWatts 12:46, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Gordon's free to rebut. No, he's not. That way lies madness and ever-more disruptive arguments further detached from reality. It stops, and it stops now. And if Terri Schiavo is all he cares about, then he's a single-purpose account who should explore picking up a different hobby altogether. --Calton | Talk 22:34, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

On this, Calton, I partially disagree. Gordon is free to rebut. He should, however, be aware that we are no longer debating this with him - unless he can gather a substantial number of wikipedians, then consensus that his links are innapropriate has not changed, and we will not respond to his rebuttals. He is certainly not free to insert his links. Hipocrite - «Talk» 22:44, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

All debate about the concensus aside, what of the about 1,130 other references by websites to my involvement in the Schiavo ordeal? You're saying that THEY'RE all wrong and a handful of editors here is right? I know that I don't have time to be 100% in any area (professional writer at the NY Times, successful litigant in the Schiavo case, Doctor with a PhD and MD behind my name), but I've done a little of ALL these, and so my suggestion that the many references to my site are at least SOMEWHAT legitimate is not so out of bounds, now is it? But, really, can all those 1,330 references be wrong, and your small group right? ???.--GordonWatts 12:46, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't know how much you know about the internet but 1000 google hits is an indicator that something is insignificant not an indicator of importance. Even then, many of them seem will be a) repeats of the same feed b) you posting in various place etc. 1000 google hits is nothing to be worked up about. Anyway I thought you'd agreed to stop beating this dead horse? or are you as one of your google hits suggests a "shameful self-promoter" --Fredrick day 13:07, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree that I am not as noteworthy in references as, say, Terri Schiavo's lawyer, probably, but look at the links above in my reply to Calton: YOU missed a little bit here: To put it in context, please note that there were 1,130 references to my involvement and ZERO to some other Watts. Now, since the references had to have my FULL name -and not just the words Gordon and Watts somewhere in the page, you can see they referred to ME. So, I am at least somewhat notable, and a heck of a lot more notable than all my friends here combined -at least on the Terri Schiavo matter. YOU are probably notable in some other area where I am not.--GordonWatts 13:16, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

"Anyway I thought you'd agreed to stop beating this dead horse? or are you as one of your google hits suggests a "shameful self-promoter"" If you notice, I agree with many of the opposing points all throughout this page, look closely, for example, I noted I was not as notable as, say, the family lawyer; However, I must speak the truth, and the numbers don't lie, not in this case anyhow. However, they sometimes exaggerate or devalue, I admit, the true facts.--GordonWatts 13:20, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

"The numbers don't lie" - leaving aside the fact that 1000 ghits is nothing, if you remove the posts that you yourself have made, the links to wikipedia archives, the links to wikiquote - what are you left with? Nowhere near 1000. Anyway, this is a pointless conversation, clearly your objective has not changed, you wish to have your links inserted and you will wikilawyers all of our time away. I think that Carlton is entirely right and your presence is disruptive and distracting. I will support any community ban that prevents you from editing Terri Schiavo articles and/or put your freehosted websites on the spam blacklist (which actually might be the quickest and easiest solution). I see no point in any further debate on this matter. --Fredrick day 13:27, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Gordon is free to rebut. No, he isn't: hundreds and thousands of words of his self-serving nonsense -- supported by (almost) no one -- filling up the page is disruptive and distracting. It always has been, it is now, and -- given Gordon's track record of not understanding plain-English explanations to him, his sense of righteousness unencumbered by evidence or outside opinion, and his inability to disengage unless absolutely forced to (and even then merely as a pause before trying a different tactic later on) -- always will be. Enough is enough, and encouraging him is ill-advised. You'll note that even people who are sympathetic to him still get the full-on Gordon Watts loghorrea when contradicting him, which is as disruptive a way of driving off disagreement as I can think of not involving personal threats as I can imagine. --Calton | Talk 00:02, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

As promised, Gordon: Wikipedia:Community_noticeboard#Community_ban_request_on_User:GordonWatts.

the numbers don't lie No, it's people who use them who do. And Gordon, it's not 1,130 hits, it's 120 -- 107 if you leave off Wikipedia -- and a great number of them are due to comments you've posted YOURSELF on various blogs promoting yourself. These include this [refactored by Sarah]. Your name's not linked because of anything resembling agreement with your views or credibility, that's for sure. --Calton | Talk 13:42, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you

In spite of the somewhat lopsided voting and many arguments, I would like to thank the small handful of editors who have made arguments for and against the links in question.

This is only right because I asked for input from all of the editors who have edited the main Schiavo article since last Christmas (a large number), and very few people responded.

For the most part, apathy dominates. As I write this, I see a request of some sort to ban me or something. As long as you make arguments against me, I am free to rebut them. The best thing for those making this complaint would be to simply ignore the matter: I am certainly not going to start talking to myself, and your continued pushing of this matter even after all parties agree to the concensus is pointless bickering and will do nothing to help the quality here.

Even though I have stopped editing on Schiavo articles (what point would a ban do? I've stopped editing already), the problem won't go away: Even as one of my opponents states here, "I'm active on other pages, and I'm finding that blogs and personal websites are being ruthlessly removed, with the instruction to find the same information elsewhere, or leave it out."

I agree: Even though I no longer edit on the Schiavo pages (where I have usually had no troubles), the problem ElinorD outlines will still be present -long after my departure, even as I had predicted and promised. Banning me when I've quit editing sounds like revenge; If the 3 editors who made this complaint have a problem, they should ignore it, but ban a good user -if you like; It will only detract from the civility -as people will say: "They banned a use who accepted concensus, stopped editing, and merely made a few replies to posts?" --They will say: "If others post, certainly this editor has a right to reply."

I have accepted concensus -and abided by it. Your move.--GordonWatts 14:15, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Link rot

This is disturbing. We are now looking at merging back into Terri Schiavo case if this cannot be resolved. Viriditas (talk) 00:17, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Who's "we"? Per WP:SUMMARY, that's actually a questionable idea. Look, just because two editors of this article have made a sprawling, grotesque show of bashing each other's brains out in public view doesn't mean the article itself is faulty. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(^Õل^ō)ˀ Contribs. 06:21, 25 November 2010 (UTC)